Episode 387 – FREEDOM! Paul Tells His Story (The Polite Society Podcast)

The Polite Society Podcast has posted a new article Episode 387 – FREEDOM! Paul Tells His Story:


Full Episode Download: http://ift.tt/2bXM71Q

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Kathy Jackson

4- Paul’s Story Part 1

4a – Paul’s Story Part 2

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:


1- Introduction


Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday, August 25th, 2016, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we talk with Kathy Jackson about Instructor training.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about Hillary’s plans for the Second Amendment

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we will hear Paul tell us his story about being falsely arrested in Gretna, Nebraska.

Paul C: I’m Paul Carlson, and we have news about the Pennsylvania Attorney General who ran afoul of the law in a big way.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we report on a DGU one town over from our own Charlie Foxtrot .. so climb aboard

Rachel: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 387 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- Spoke to Browning about an ambidextrous 1911-22.  They said you can’t get there from here.  I showed the Eddie Eagle Cartoon to a 2 year old, a 4 year old, and their mom.  A good start.  I also wrote an advertisement for the Buckeye Firearms Foundation.  I’ll be on Gun Freedom Radio this Saturday.  And POGO.


John – Remember a couple of weeks ago I mentioned converting a bowling ball into a pivoting base for a gun vise? Let me tell you that cutting a bowling ball in half is a chore using a handsaw! I hope to finish the project tomorrow. In gun related news, I plan to go to a gun show this weekend in Greensboro. I may be meeting up with an unnamed gun podcaster whose voice our listeners might recognize but whose face has never been seen on the Internet.


Rachel – I shot revolvers with Tracy Thronburg, a friend and fellow shooter and instructor. If you ever get a chance to train with Tracy, take it.

I also marked my calendar for a political meeting I’m excited about – well, as excited as I get about politics. The SREC (Texas GOP board) meets Sept. 9-10 in Austin and a major item on their agenda is organizing the brand new Legislative Priority Committee. Constitutional Carry is our #1 priority and if things go as planned, there will be at least one person assigned to spearhead efforts for each priority – using party resources. Keeping fingers crossed that progress doesn’t get lost in bureaucracy. Join me for the meeting – either live in Austin, or through the livestream from your home.

Rob- I trained with Tracy, and learned a lot.  Chris Cerino is in your backyard now.


Gary-  I have atrial fibrillation.  May need electro shock.  New diet, and I lost 35 pounds.. Eating only potatoes for 2 weeks.


Paul Carlson – I spent a bunch of time working on a Remington 700 that needs to get more accurate.  I spent some time getting it sighted in and am getting ready to swap the stock to a Magpul Hunter 700 with a BDM.

I’m looking forward to mounting up an Aridus Industries QDC on my Remington 1100.


I also spent some time making sure my SSA Training Trailer is all squared away and that everything has a place.

Paul L: we got our plan b’s


Paul/Susan- Did anything interesting happen with us? We will get to that in a special segment after our interview with Kathy Jackson. I have to admit that I am usually a little jealous of Rob, as it seems that he is always on really cool podcasts and radio shows as a guest. Well since Tuesday I have been on Bob Mayne’s Handgun World Podcast, Safety Solutions Academy Podcast with Paul Carlson, The Gun Blog Variety Cast with Sean Sorrentino, and Lock and Load Radio with Bill Frady. Appearances are scheduled with Gun Freedom Radio and Tom Gresham’s Gun talk Radio.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.



2- News 1

In a recent article for foxnews.com, Second Amendment champion John Lott provided some thoughtful commentary on Hillary Clinton’s gun control leanings.  As you would expect, Dr. Lott provided substantial support for his conclusions.


He points out that the media fact checkers are in a tizzy because Donald Trump often states that Mrs. Clinton wants to “essentially abolish the Second Amendment.”  As Lott points out, CNN portrayed this as a “persistent” and “false” accusation while the Washington Post calls Mr. Trump’s statements “absurd.”


The trick here is that Mrs. Clinton knows how to play the game.  One day she says that she is “…not looking to repeal the Second Amendment” and “not looking to take people’s guns away.”  However, she has campaigned on gun control.  She supports, “a 25 percent tax on handguns, an assault weapons ban, repeal of laws allowing permitted concealed handguns, and background checks on the private transfer of guns.”  She has also agreed with increased fees and regulations imposed by her husband during his tenure as President.  These regulations saw the number of licensed firearms dealers fall by 73 percent between 1992 and 2000.  


In a recent interview with George Stephanopoulos, Mrs. Clinton referred to Heller as “the decision by the late Justice Scalia.”  Yes, Justice Scalia wrote the majority opinion.  But, wasn’t it really  the Court’s decision?  She would not even concede that the right to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right!


Mrs. Clinton states that prior to Heller, “there was a nuanced reading of the Second Amendment” and that, until that time, there was no argument …that localities and states and the federal government had a right, as we do with every amendment, to impose reasonable regulation.”  Well, it is comforting to know that she is qualified to determine what reasonable searches and seizures, cruel and unusual punishment, due process and double jeopardy limitations should be.  Why not go after the first amendment, too?  There is no doubt that Mrs. Clinton would like to stifle the voices of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News and others who sometimes paint a less than rosy picture of her.


Mrs. Clinton told a group of New York donors, “The Supreme Court is wrong on the Second Amendment, and I am going to make that case every chance that I get.”  Dr. Lott points out that the Supreme Court only reviewed laws that were complete gun bans and another that made it a crime to use a gun.  You would think the Court struck down universal background checks, assault weapons bans and other policies in her large bag of tricks.  Let’s not forget that she would like to repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act in order to bankrupt firearms manufacturers.  Her dutiful daughter, Chelsea, also promised that her mother’s Supreme Court appointments would overturn decisions such as Heller.  More than ever, elections have consequences.


John – One thing that encourages me is that gun companies are starting to step up with contribution to the NRA and the NSSF to fight her. Ruger will match contributions to the NRA-ILA dollar for dollar up to $5 million.



Paul L – Anyone who is paying attention should know that Hillary really IS anti rights, not just anti gun. It’s our duty to inform our friends and neighbors

Rachel- Yes, elections have consequences. The results of the election are a reflection of us as a country. As much as I intensely dislike Clinton and her positions, I believe that if you want to change the reflection, don’t just punch the mirror.   

Paul C – The best news on all of this is that at least Mrs. Clinton isn’t playing a moderate game.  Instead, she is laying it all out and that will be to her disadvantage.

Rob- I’m amazed how the media hides the gun ban that Hillary has called a political priority.


2- News 2  

And now for something completely different.  Well, maybe not so different if you are from New York or Illinois.  The first female Democrat to be elected to the lofty position of attorney general in Pennsylvania has quickly become embroiled in a web of scandal.  


Last week Attorney General, Kathleen Kane was convicted of nine criminal charges. The former Lackawanna County prosecutor had a defense team that provided no witnesses during the trial and the attorney general did not testify on her own behalf.  The charges ranged from two felony perjury counts to criminal conspiracy and obstruction of justice.  At the core of the matter was a plot to discredit her political rival, prosecutor Frank Fina.  Attorney General Kathleen Kane leaked grand jury testimony to the press in order to imply that Mister Fina did not vigorously prosecute corruption.  Of course, Kathleen Kane was implicated in the subsequent cover up of her leaked information.  


In the wake of all of this turmoil, Mrs. Kane’s law license was suspended and fellow Democrat, Governor Tom Wolf, has called for her resignation.  She resigned the following day.  


After the verdict was handed down, Judge Wendy Demchick-Alloy felt compelled to provide these words of admonition: “There is to be absolutely no retaliation of any kind against any witness in this case, either by your own devices, from your own mouth or your hand, or directing anybody to do anything.”  Given the lengths that Mrs. Kane would go to discredit a rival, is it any wonder the judge would believe it necessary to prohibit revenge when prison time is on the line?


Mrs. Kane is currently free on bail while awaiting sentencing.  There is a potential for 28 years in prison.  It would be interesting to know the pressure placed on the judge during the 90 days prior to the hearing!


As you may recall, Mrs. Kane unilaterally canceled reciprocity agreements between Pennsylvania and Utah and Idaho.  She also refused to defend her state’s preemption law from municipalities that were challenging it in court.  These acts should come as no surprise since she was placed in office by the Clinton political machine.  Her elected office was her reward for supporting Mrs. Clinton’s first attempt to win the White House.  She defeated Obama’s choice, Patrick Murphy, in the primary.  Kane was on the fast track to the US Senate.  With a couple of felonies on her record, she will not be among those of us with concealed carry permits.  So, why is it that criminals like her are deciding what is best for us?  As we often say, “elections have consequences.”


Comment- She didn’t launder millions of dollars of foreign money, so she might be convicted.


John – It was not only the Clinton Machine that put her in office. It was ads paid for by Michael Bloomberg. She repaid him with her antigun stance especially with regard to reciprocity. I think he had high hopes that she might go on to be governor or senator.


Rob- She was set for a Senate run.  Was she hired by the Clinton campaign?


Gun Quotes-

The constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms- Samuel Adams


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Kathy Jackson.



3- Interview 1 with Kathy Jackson.  Instructors are made, not born.

Putting the material together for instruction forces us to learn the material at a deeper level.  What is essential?  What is the best way to present that material?


As an instructor, I ask myself what happened.  What went well?  What can I improve?  Then write down the answers!  There is a lot of complexity behind the scene that makes it possible to present the material and make it look simple.  


You have to thoroughly know what you’re teaching. However, each of us are still in progress and always will be. Karl Rehn has researched some objective standards for instructor shooting levels – mathematically figured out what score on each of many standards would be considered “instructor” level for the top shooting schools. Our goal should be to shoot within that range, on demand, cold. Keep working toward that point; however, you can still teach even if you’re not there yet.


You need to score at least 70 percent of the experts to be competent.  I’ve been training since 1999.  I was leading classes by 2005.  Training on my own since 2013.  I’m not a natural student.  I was persistent and conscientious.  Teaching was the best way for me to continue to learn.


Two tracts for instructor development.  Classes vs mentoring.  We need more instructors, so how do we efficiently develop competent instructors.  We need to talk and we need to show.


Rob- I was struck by the review process you use as an instructor.  

What happened?  What went well?  What can I improve?  Then write down the answers.  That sounds like what I do as a student.  Is that a broader technique for both teachers and students.


Kathy- Those notes let you maintain your skills and develop your skills between training classes.  You will make the same mistakes unless you concentrate on strengthening your weaknesses.


Your timed evaluation reminds me of IDPA where you always are ranked as percentage compared to the top shooters in that event.. And in that particular stage.


Class coming up in Philadelphia.  Annette Evans blogs at Beauty behind the blast.


4- Paul’s Story 1


4a Paul’s story 2


I need to thank my beautiful wife Susan. She has stood by me through this and provided more strength than she will ever know. I need to thank everyone on this show. Beyond co hosts, beyond friends, they have become in many cases my confidants, my counselors, and my cheerleaders. Kathy Jackson, Massad Ayoob, and Gail Pepin. I consider Kathy my friend and mentor. I consider Gail and Mas friends and role models. Before I was even released from jail these people were in contact with Susan and made sure that she had what she needed and were supportive of her when I couldn’t be. I want to thank Larry and Stacy Piekarski for going out of their way to help in a time of need, and of course Marty and Gila Hayes and everyone at ACLDN. Finally I want to thank each and every person who donated, or messaged or posted to social media or in any way got in touch and said “ we believe in you. We know you are innocent and we have your back.”


Unless you have been through something similar you can’t know how much that means to someone who feels like they have their back up against the wall.


Rob- Paul, your story is frightening.  If you were charged, then anyone could have been charged.   You were innocent and they ran you through the legal mill to drain you of tens of thousands of dollars.  What would have happened to you if you couldn’t have raised the money for a defense?


Paul C – We covered a lot of details, including things that you would have done differently, when you joined me on the SSA Podcast and I want to say “thank you” for that.  What would you have done differently if you were in the truck stop facing the same situation right now?


Paul- Lessons learned.  I’d call 911 as soon as the guy started walking towards our truck.  I’d also be a member of the Armed Citizen’s Legal Defense Network.  That means I would have had a great lawyer at my bail hearing.


John – Do you think the less than polite behavior of the student pushed the other guy to overreact?

Paul- Yes.  Wear the mantle of innocence.

John- Do you want to carry less than lethal weapons such as pepper spray?

Paul- No.  I tried a voice.  I was willing to go to guns.

John- Was the driver who made the false accusation an independent driver or company driver? If a company driver, is his company aware of the false accusations? Do you think they bear any liability for his conduct?
Paul L-  
Paul C – For those folks out there that don’t spend a lot of time on the road how do you feel about truck stops and rest areas in general?  Do you see them as areas that concentrate criminal activity?  Are there any suggestions you have for folks regarding staying safe when they are traveling?

Gary – Given what we learned in MAG40 do you think shooting this guy would be justified?


Paul- It is tough to bring legal action against people unless you have a lot of money.


Rob- There is a school boy assumption that someone would face legal penalties for lying to the police.  Is that true?


Rob- It seems the police wanted a case they could prosecute rather than a case that served justice.


Here is Paul’s interview with Bob Mayne on the Handgun World Podcast.

Here is Paul’s interview with Paul Carlson on the Safety Solutions Academy Podcast.


5- DGUs  (at beginning)

Let’s not document murders gone wrong. RM

Here in Peyton Place, Missouri

Our Charlie Foxtrot didn’t have far to go to research this DGU — just to the next town over. An O’Fallon, Missouri woman shot a strange man in her home. In the 911 call, she pleads for help for an ongoing break-in, robbery, and armed assault — then several shots are heard. Police arrived to find Louis R. Gumpenberger, 33, dead from multiple gunshot wounds.  Pamela Hupp, 57, told officers of being confronted in her driveway by a man with a knife, knocking the blade away, and escaping to her bedroom where she grabbed the gun. The gun that she used to defend her life.  

However, something wasn’t quite right from the start.  

Gumpenberger was severely handicapped, left physically and mentally impaired by a 2005 car accident. He lived 13 miles from the death scene, and no one could understand how he could travel that distance since he could not drive. Friends and family described Gumpenberger as friendly and easy-going, even though he did have past violent episodes. He was interviewing for a job in the morning at a firm were he was well thought of as capable and conscientious. Those that knew him could not believe he would be involved in violent crime.  

The same could not be said of the homeowner. Hupp was the last known person to see her business partner before she was brutally murdered. Hupp testified at the trial of the woman’s husband. That conviction was overturned when it was learned that Hupp became the beneficiary of a $150,000 life insurance policy on her parner just days before the murder. The man’s second trial resulted in an acquittal, which naturally shifted suspicions to Huff. Huff was also the last person to see her mother before her body was found beneath her third floor balcony. Now, Huff had killed a disabled man with 900 dollars in his pocket and a note with the name of the man she had tried to implicate.    

After a nearly two week investigation, police arrested Huff, charging her with 1st degree premeditated murder. She was said to have lured Gumpenberger to her house and planting the note and money to again frame her dead business partner’s husband. GPS records from her phone show her travelling to Gumpenberger’s apartment and returning to her house minutes before the shooting. While in police custody, she used a ballpoint pen to stab herself several times. Huff was hospitalized in stable condition and remains held on a 2 million dollar bond.

All this is to illustrate the problems police have when responding to a self-defense shooting. The crime scene is a confusing mess of evidence and witness claims. There’s also a whole range of forensic evidence which needs to be uncovered. Careful, exacting, time-consuming police work, analysis and deliberation is required. The police simply can not know what actually occurred immediately. In the past, we’ve been critical of the police for not quickly declaring an obvious self-defense shooting a “good-shoot.” With what we’ve learned, we’ll endeavour not to make that mistake again.   

This situation also relates to Massad Ayoob’s teachings about the second fight for your life, the one that comes after the gunfight. Education, training and practice come into play here. Knowing what to say, how to act and interact with the police, and how to get assistance is essential; as Paul will surely agree.   

A Sheriff Deputy Wants You To Be a Good Little Victim

Two men entered an Augusta, Georgia Subway restaurant one afternoon. Their actions worried the clerk, so she went to her purse and got her handgun. When one thug jumped the counter and the other struck the employee’s 14-year-old son on the head with a crowbar, she was forced to respond to the deadly situation with gunfire. Cornelius Lamar Harrison of Greensboro, North Carolina was hit in his left side, and was declared dead at a local hospital. His confederate was later arrested at a hotel in the midst of what was called a “medical episode.” Deputies eventually linked him to the Subway robbery and booked him for possession of methamphetamine, aggravated assault and felony murder. When fingerprinted, his real name and record were uncovered. Howard Maurice Harris had outstanding drug charges and, hardly unexpectedly, had violated his North Carolina probation.  


This type of violent crime is unfortunately hardly unique. However, we hope the advice that Lieutenant Allan Rollins provided is one-of-a-kind. Discussing the above hold up, the good deputy stated that a victim should “Always cooperate, stand back put your hands up, make sure they know you are no threat to them. If you become the victim of a robbery, do not try anything out of the ordinary. You don’t want to put yourself in any more danger. Give them what they want, if they just want the cash register, let them have it. It’s only money. Most important part is to remain calm, get all the information you can.”

In the ugly real world, it’s unfortunately that the deputy’s advice could well get you killed. There is no guarantee that the criminals will not give in to violent impulses once the robbery is completed. As in this instance, unneeded violence is often part of the robbery, and once that line is crossed, violence often escalates. Death is unfortunately an increasing trend in modern crime. Lieutenant Rollins’ advice to always submit to the criminals ignores the very real positive lifesaving impact of the aggressive defenses we document each week. We urge our listeners to get the training that will allow them to recognize and respond to the criminal threat.  “It’s only money,” <unquote> — unless it isn’t. Being a good, little victim can be deadly.  


John – As a native of Greensboro, I will say that I do not know nor want to know Mr. Harrison.


Rob- there is a fantasy contract between the robber and the victim.  “You give me money and I leave you alone.”  The thief doesn’t have to obey the contract.


Rachel- the deputy’s advice would probably work if people were inherently good. I happen to believe they aren’t. Humanity has a sin problem. That belief informs my preparation for worst-case scenarios.

Gary –


Paul C – Despite the fact that this situation turned out as best as it could doesn’t mean that everything was done well.  Having your gun on your body is going to increase your likelihood of success  Also, when you start hearing “always” and “never,” time to find someone else to listen to…

Rob- will the robber be between you and your gun?

John – Going to the advice given, it ignores the fact that some criminals will kill their robbery victims so that they cannot testify or ID them.

Rob- People have a fantasy that they can talk the robber out of violence.  The fantasy that violence happens to someone else, but not to them because you are a nice person.

Doctor William Aprill talks about this fantasy.


Geezers Rock!
A 91-year-old seasoned citizen got an uncomfortable feeling when crossing a Detroit-area Rite Aid parking lot: a much younger man was following him. More worrisome, his shadow was approaching and behaving erratically. As he continued to approach, the elder man warned that he had a concealed carry permit. When the erratic fellow suddenly pointed an object at him, the senior fired, striking the man in the neck.  

The youngster ran off, and police found him collapsed in a Petco parking lot across the street. He was treated at the local hospital and later arrested. Police are asking anyone with information on the incident to contact them.  

Paul C – Trust your gut!

We are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive gun use segment is intended as information NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



No 6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Voice mail #1


Text message #1


Desantis Nemesis: works great if it’s the exact model for your gun. I pocket carry S&W bodyguard with no laser. It fell out once. Holster was designed for laser



Paul C – Specific holster for your gun couldn’t agree more!

Rachel-and tighten it correctly for your gun, and test it

Gary –


Text message #2


Evening crew,


I was wondering if you’re involved in an auto accident, what is the general procedure for first responders when they find a firearm in the vehicle?


What would I need to do to get my firearm back once I’m released from the hospital?

Thank you


  1. S. I look forward to checking out some of the podcast on the new network. ☺


Rachel- From my medic sister: “We can give it to security, cop, or a commander, or sometimes they’ll have a family member or friend come pick it up before we transport.”



Text message #3


On episode 386 in the listener feedback section Paul was commenting about wild animals as it relates to self protection and one’s gun choice. He mentioned alligators and crocodiles. I believe it was Rob who chimed in, chuckled, and said, “That’s the other hemisphere, Buddy,” relating to Paul’s mention of crocodiles.

I just wanted to let Rob and the others know that there’s a population of crocodiles in Florida. The numbers are small compared to alligators, and they are a protected species there.

I love the podcast. Keep up the great work.



Rob- Thank you for the zoological correction, Chris.


Listener e-mail discussion


On a previous episode you discussed some West Virginia colleges making firearms off limits even though the state has constitutional carry. Rachel mentioned in passing that she felt that a PRIVATE university should be allowed to make such a  policy. Of course I know she’d prefer that they didn’t.  Let me state that I know Rachel is among the staunchest of gun rights advocates as am I. I also find myself agreeing with her the VAST majority of the time when she voices an opinion (even her views about Trump, but I’ll save that for another email.)

I just thought the topic of privately owned businesses posting their premises as off limits should be explored further.

Like Rachel I also live in Texas. 30.06 & 30.07 signs which ban concealed and open carry respectively carry the force of law. I often hear some site “private property rights” when they say they support such a private business ban.

I think it’s worth pointing out the difference between private property, i.e. One’s home, and private property that is open for public use. The latter is subject to MUCH more regulation.

For instance, in the town where I live smoking is not allowed in any public business. That is a city ordinance. A business owner cannot sit in a chair that he bought, in a building he owns, on a plot of land that he owns if he is open to the public. The same business owner cannot deny service to someone based on race, creed, religion, etc.  That is covered by federal law.  He also must provide parking and ramp access to his building for those who are disabled.  There are also ample OSHA regulations he must follow.  

I’m not particularly fond or government regulation, and I do feel that we are over-regulated as a society.  The idea behind the regulations I mentioned seems to be that they’re needed for the safety and well-being of the customers and employees.  If one follows that logic, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have a discussion about proposing laws that prevent privately owned businesses from denying its patrons and employees their constitutional rights to carry a firearm for self-protection just because he or she enters the premises of said business.

Now if one doesn’t support such a proposal because he or she also thinks the other regulations are not necessary or are too burdensome for the business, I could at least respect that position because I feel that person is being consistent.  If, however, one supports the idea that a business open to the public must adhere to a set of regulations for public safety; I think it’s reasonable to say a person’s constitutional rights don’t end just because a business owner would like to deny them inside his or her business.

I know we still have a ways to go, but I hope getting this discussion started could get us in that direction.  I do like the Senator Hall of Texas bill idea that copies the new Tennessee model of holding anti gun businesses responsible for possible injuries or deaths from mass shooting or other crimes that happen at the business.

p.s. I love the show and appreciate everything all the hosts do.  Paul, I’m very happy that you were ultimately vindicated after that nightmare event you suffered in Nebraska.  Thank you for telling your story on Bob Mayne’s podcast.  Your experience has certainly taught me a few things as well as reinforced some things I already knew.  

Chris (feel free to use my first name on the air)


Rachel- I agree with your logic. If I supported governmental regulations of businesses and thought they were needed for the safety and well-being of customers and employees, then it would not be unreasonable to want the government to regulate against gun-free zones in businesses. However, I do NOT support governmental regulation of businesses. I believe in personal liberty, and that includes other people’s right to be stupid. So, as much as I’d personally love to be able to carry everywhere, in order to be consistent, I have to support the business owner’s right to post 30.06 and 30.07. I AM glad we have a specific sign (i.e., no-gun signs don’t have force of law). And, I would absolutely support the bill making them liable for harm when they disarm us.


Rob- I think of “gun-free” zones as a public nuisance.  Like a landowner leaving an abandoned well or pond on their property.  You can’t wave liability as you expose your customers to the increased risk you created.  How do I rationalize my position with businesses that deliberately expose the customers to risk.. Like amusement parks and sport activities.




Hey polite society crew,

I was listening to your recent podcast, 386, where you were discussing Gary Johnson’s running mate & his anti gun stance.  I haven’t  followed the libertarian party very much & think that they don’t stand a chance at winning & will only draw votes away from Trump.  It’s unfortunate that they are taking a similar stance on guns. Like all of you, I think the 2nd amendment is crucial in this election.  

Yesterday, Rush Limbaugh referenced an article that took a look at voters in Pennsylvania.   Here is the link:
http://ift.tt/2c0Biza I wonder if this may be the case around the country?  I travel many parts of NY state, north of Westchester county for my job.  I can say that I definitely see more Trump signs than Hillary signs. That being said, NY City is extremely liberal.  Hopefully, Trump can pull more of the home town crowd his way.

I enjoy the podcast & look forward to them each week. Keep up the good work.


Rob- The purple states will decide this election.

John – New York State is like Illinois – its largest city dominates policy in that state.




Greetings all,

The reason you don’t want to use your hollow point defensive rounds on animals, given a choice, is as stated. You need penetration. Most handgun defense ammo is a compromise. You need enough penetration but not too much. Since there is a limited amount of energy available they design the bullet to expand, which takes some energy, a specific amount to give the needed penetration. A varmint bullet is designed for little penetration but a lot of expansion. Defensive bullets are just too fragile for tougher beasts.


If I’m carrying a .357 mag, for defense I’d use a 125gr HP. If hunting depending on the animal, I’d up it to 158gr HP or even a soft point for its tougher construction and deeper penetration. If using a carbine in that caliber I’d either go to a soft point or even better, a heavier hard cast depending on what I was hunting. The 125gr, which is a fantastic man stopper would tend to leave a shallow devastating wound on even a deer and might even just PO a hog.


As to the polls, don’t forget they can be just as biased as the news media. I’d take little credence in polls. I suspect they are being designed and published to create doubt in the minds of those not supporting Hillary.



Paul C – Good summary.

John – Check who is doing the poll and who they tend to do polls for such as Public Policy Polling does for Democrats.



I sent you guys an email last week stating I thought the best case was Johnson could get in the debates and maybe have a really long shot at making it a three way race. I didn’t like his VP pick at all, but thought maybe we changed his views. I was wrong, he’s still a gun grabbing liberal piece of garbage.


Guess i’ll vote for Trump, but he has no chance.


We’re just screwed, really, really screwed!


Secession anyone???  


Rachel- consider harnessing the power of the protest vote. Candidates, campaigns, and Political parties look carefully at vote numbers. They calculate to determine how many people voted for their candidate, how many people voted against, and how many people DID NOT vote at all. This helps them know how much of their party they have alienated. If they hear massive protests against their candidate but they see the votes show up, they turn a deaf ear to the complaints. They get the message that people will still hold their nose and vote for a candidate even if they hate him that much. If they see they actually lose votes – i.e. there are people in their party who came to teh polls but refused to vote for their guy, they will be much more careful whom they push for nomination next time around.


And yeah, after Brexit, we’re all now talking about Texit. Feel free to come join.


Rob- I think the race is close.


Paul – I think that Trump absolutely has a chance. I want to bring up again that at this point Bush sr trailed Dukakis by 17 points in August. Bush won that one by a landslide.



Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I wrote about political activism at the local level.  Really local.  We are in the best position to end gun free zones in our schools and hospitals.  This is how you get politically effective.. At five minutes a day for a week.  It is so simple you can do it before coffee. http://ift.tt/2bGiMbn  My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog only guns and money.


John- I’ve done a few posts since our last podcast. One that might interest any Clint Eastwood Dirty Harry fan is the pending reintroduction of the Auto Mag Pistol. It was the pistol used by Dirty Harry in 1983’s Sudden Impact. It fired the auto pistol equivalent of the .44 Mag cartridge. I don’t know how much it will cost nor if they will have solved many of the original pistol’s jamming problems but it is interesting.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


Rob- velociraptors beware.

Paul C – You can load that with whatever you want from hollow points to hard cast!


Paul L- We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Kathy Jackson and Paul Carlson for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


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